Kawari-Large VGA Output - NTSC Colors are way off.

[dabonetn]

Kawari-Large VGA Output - NTSC Colors are way off.

[randyrossi]

Can you run RGBED for the ntsc mode and post a pic of what that looks like? Try the option to reset to defaults and see if you get color.

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On Tue, Aug 30, 2022 at 6:35 PM dabonetn ***@***.***> wrote: Wired up a RGB header to VGA connector today, and PAL looks great, but NTSC has no blue. Here's images of color bars, same cable used for both, just changing to either a pal or ntsc vic mode. https://imgur.com/a/yyPkJ2I — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#6>, or unsubscribe <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AAI3HKAK3DHMYQKGLIJLFCTV32ECXANCNFSM6AAAAAAQA2TEJY> . You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread.Message ID: ***@***.***>

-- Randy Rossi - "There are only two things that are hard about computer science; Naming things, Cache Invalidation, and Off-by-one errors."

[dabonetn]

RGBED picture posted is the same link above.

I have tried just hitting D in the config program with no results, and I tried all the presets in rgbed and none had blue.

RGBTest displays all 3 colors.

[randyrossi]

Let me try to reproduce on my board. Will get back to you.

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On Tue, Aug 30, 2022 at 7:01 PM dabonetn ***@***.***> wrote: RGBED picture posted is the same link above. I have tried just hitting D in the config program with no results, and I tried all the presets in rgbed and none had blue. — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#6 (comment)>, or unsubscribe <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AAI3HKDBNRSKFVCKPNGLBY3V32HD3ANCNFSM6AAAAAAQA2TEJY> . You are receiving this because you commented.Message ID: ***@***.***>

-- Randy Rossi - "There are only two things that are hard about computer science; Naming things, Cache Invalidation, and Off-by-one errors."

[randyrossi]

I can see activity on all channels on my oscilloscope. Can you unplug from the monitor and attach a scope to the blue channel in NTSC mode?

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On Tue, Aug 30, 2022 at 7:14 PM Randy Rossi ***@***.***> wrote: Let me try to reproduce on my board. Will get back to you. On Tue, Aug 30, 2022 at 7:01 PM dabonetn ***@***.***> wrote: > RGBED picture posted is the same link above. > > I have tried just hitting D in the config program with no results, and I > tried all the presets in rgbed and none had blue. > > — > Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub > <#6 (comment)>, > or unsubscribe > <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AAI3HKDBNRSKFVCKPNGLBY3V32HD3ANCNFSM6AAAAAAQA2TEJY> > . > You are receiving this because you commented.Message ID: > ***@***.***> > -- Randy Rossi - "There are only two things that are hard about computer science; Naming things, Cache Invalidation, and Off-by-one errors."

-- Randy Rossi - "There are only two things that are hard about computer science; Naming things, Cache Invalidation, and Off-by-one errors."

[dabonetn]

Pictures are on the link now.
NTSC Blue and Green
PAL Blue and Green
At the boot screen.

[dabonetn]

VGA and power supply are the only cables attached to the machine currently.
Monitor and c64 are running off the same power strip.

[randyrossi]

Very odd! The only real difference between the two modes is the timing/resolution. Your monitor must not like the values I have set. But it's very strange for only blue channel to be ignored like that.

I can give you a flash update with registers that let you POKE different timing values while you are using the machine. Maybe we can adjust them to get a proper image? In the meantime, can you try a different monitor? Is the blue channel also missing for the 6567R56A mode?

The values we can change are front porch, sync interval and back porch values for horizontal and vertical. The resolution is (obviously) fixed. I've tested these parameters on the only VGA monitor I have as well as an up-scaler. So not an exhaustive list of devices. But these timing values are not standard at all and I'm not surprised if they don't work on all monitors.

[dabonetn]

Tried on the Westinghouse and a Samsung Monitor.
Same results with both.

I don't have a straight VGA crt monitor anymore to test with.

[randyrossi]

Ah, I didn't realize this was not a CRT. These are LCD monitors with VGA inputs? Let me see if I can reproduce the issue here first and then I can tweak the timing myself.

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On Tue, Aug 30, 2022 at 10:11 PM dabonetn ***@***.***> wrote: Tried on the Westinghouse and a Samsung Monitor. Same results with both. I don't have a straight VGA crt monitor anymore to test with. — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#6 (comment)>, or unsubscribe <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AAI3HKBB67MUR22QBXULLBTV325NZANCNFSM6AAAAAAQA2TEJY> . You are receiving this because you commented.Message ID: ***@***.***>

-- Randy Rossi - "There are only two things that are hard about computer science; Naming things, Cache Invalidation, and Off-by-one errors."

[dabonetn]

I've hooked up a Sony PVM-01351Q for 15k RGB using Csync on the Hsync pin.

Pictures have been added to the imgur post, and the PAL rgb is much brighter than the ntsc on a analog monitor also.
Turning the brightness control to maximum gives a passable, but still very dark ntsc picture.

[randyrossi]

You should be able to get the same brightness from the NTSC display using RGBED. If you find more suitable defaults, I can make them the defaults in the bitstream. I think the values chosen come from VICE's color palettes and they are muted for NTSC.

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On Wed, Aug 31, 2022 at 12:51 PM dabonetn ***@***.***> wrote: I've hooked up a Sony PVM-01351Q for 15k RGB using Csync on the Hsync pin. Pictures have been added to the imgur post, and the PAL rgb is much brighter than the ntsc on a analog monitor also. Turning the brightness control to maximum gives a passable, but still very dark ntsc picture. — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#6 (comment)>, or unsubscribe <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AAI3HKAT6WJKDB4TSXBUS7TV36ERPANCNFSM6AAAAAAQA2TEJY> . You are receiving this because you commented.Message ID: ***@***.***>

-- Randy Rossi - "There are only two things that are hard about computer science; Naming things, Cache Invalidation, and Off-by-one errors."

[dabonetn]

The camera doesn't really do it justice, on the default output, it's looks black and white on the boot screen.
Instead of manually adjusting every color, is there an overall brightness setting?

Like white is muted, very muted, but it seems to have a max value of 3f, correct?

[randyrossi]

No, there is no brightness control but it could be added to that editor. But it feels like something else is going on with NTSC. I'm looking at those values in the pic and they should be close to what you are seeing with PAL in terms of brightness. Probably related to the B/W issue on the LCD monitors. I tried my own LCD monitor's VGA and I got color on both PAL and NTSC modes. It was darker in NTSC but still color. But like I said, the only difference between those modes is the timing parameters. I'm going to try increasing the drive strength on the RGB channels to see if that makes a difference. I have two other monitors to try so hopefully I can repro this better here.

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On Wed, Aug 31, 2022 at 1:10 PM dabonetn ***@***.***> wrote: The camera doesn't really do it justice, on the default output, it's looks black and white on the boot screen. Instead of manually adjusting every color, is there an overall brightness setting? Like white is muted, very muted, but it seems to have a max value of 3f, correct? — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#6 (comment)>, or unsubscribe <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AAI3HKDNZZHMS657DH7EFJDV36GWTANCNFSM6AAAAAAQA2TEJY> . You are receiving this because you commented.Message ID: ***@***.***>

-- Randy Rossi - "There are only two things that are hard about computer science; Naming things, Cache Invalidation, and Off-by-one errors."

[randyrossi]

I have a monitor that exhibits the 'no/low blue' color information problem. What happens when you POKE 53280,0 to make the border black? Do the colors for text then show up properly?

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On Wed, Aug 31, 2022 at 1:28 PM Randy Rossi ***@***.***> wrote: No, there is no brightness control but it could be added to that editor. But it feels like something else is going on with NTSC. I'm looking at those values in the pic and they should be close to what you are seeing with PAL in terms of brightness. Probably related to the B/W issue on the LCD monitors. I tried my own LCD monitor's VGA and I got color on both PAL and NTSC modes. It was darker in NTSC but still color. But like I said, the only difference between those modes is the timing parameters. I'm going to try increasing the drive strength on the RGB channels to see if that makes a difference. I have two other monitors to try so hopefully I can repro this better here. On Wed, Aug 31, 2022 at 1:10 PM dabonetn ***@***.***> wrote: > The camera doesn't really do it justice, on the default output, it's > looks black and white on the boot screen. > Instead of manually adjusting every color, is there an overall brightness > setting? > > Like white is muted, very muted, but it seems to have a max value of 3f, > correct? > > — > Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub > <#6 (comment)>, > or unsubscribe > <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AAI3HKDNZZHMS657DH7EFJDV36GWTANCNFSM6AAAAAAQA2TEJY> > . > You are receiving this because you commented.Message ID: > ***@***.***> > -- Randy Rossi - "There are only two things that are hard about computer science; Naming things, Cache Invalidation, and Off-by-one errors."

-- Randy Rossi - "There are only two things that are hard about computer science; Naming things, Cache Invalidation, and Off-by-one errors."

[dabonetn]

Yes it does.

[randyrossi]

Okay, it looks like color 0 is influencing the other colors. Probably because I'm doing something silly during the blanking intervals. Instead of actually setting the level to 0 as it should be, I'm probably using the border color. So that's probably why it starts working when you set the border color to black. I'll look into it.

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On Wed, Aug 31, 2022 at 8:27 PM dabonetn ***@***.***> wrote: Yes it does. — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#6 (comment)>, or unsubscribe <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AAI3HKFLXAAX5WNXCLYDVLLV37Z5ZANCNFSM6AAAAAAQA2TEJY> . You are receiving this because you commented.Message ID: ***@***.***>

-- Randy Rossi - "There are only two things that are hard about computer science; Naming things, Cache Invalidation, and Off-by-one errors."

[dabonetn]

Sorry to keep opening issues. Any other feed back on the other 6 units?

[randyrossi]

No problem. Keep 'em coming! Thanks for reporting these issues. No, I haven't heard from the other 6 owners yet.

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On Wed, Aug 31, 2022 at 8:48 PM dabonetn ***@***.***> wrote: Sorry to keep opening issues. Any other feed back on the other 6 units? — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#6 (comment)>, or unsubscribe <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AAI3HKBOSPDYARFNG7UTKYTV374OFANCNFSM6AAAAAAQA2TEJY> . You are receiving this because you commented.Message ID: ***@***.***>

-- Randy Rossi - "There are only two things that are hard about computer science; Naming things, Cache Invalidation, and Off-by-one errors."

[randyrossi]

I have a fix for this. The horizonal sync pulse was a bit too short. Increasing it fixed the dark no/low blue issue. I will test with more monitors and if they all look good I will have a firmware update for you soon.

[randyrossi]

Can you try this firmware update and let me know if it fixes your NTSC/VGA color issues? This worked for me on two of my monitors. You will have to remove the flash jumper to allow flashing the device before powering it on. Just LOAD"*",8,1 and follow the instructions. You can use either the individual .d64 disks or a single d81 if you have that option (it will still prompt to swap disks bit just hit enter). The fast loader will not work on SD2IEC. So use either a Pi1541 or real 1541. Otherwise, it will be slower. https://accentual.com/vicii-kawari/downloads/flash/LD/kawari_flash_1.8_LD_multiboot.zip It's a good idea to verify but is not necessary. Your firmware should report 1.8 after this is done.

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On Wed, Aug 31, 2022 at 9:31 PM Randy Rossi ***@***.***> wrote: No problem. Keep 'em coming! Thanks for reporting these issues. No, I haven't heard from the other 6 owners yet. On Wed, Aug 31, 2022 at 8:48 PM dabonetn ***@***.***> wrote: > Sorry to keep opening issues. Any other feed back on the other 6 units? > > — > Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub > <#6 (comment)>, > or unsubscribe > <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AAI3HKBOSPDYARFNG7UTKYTV374OFANCNFSM6AAAAAAQA2TEJY> > . > You are receiving this because you commented.Message ID: > ***@***.***> > -- Randy Rossi - "There are only two things that are hard about computer science; Naming things, Cache Invalidation, and Off-by-one errors."

-- Randy Rossi - "There are only two things that are hard about computer science; Naming things, Cache Invalidation, and Off-by-one errors."

[dabonetn]

I'll try in a few, but have you thought about releasing non fast loading software so sd2iec users can use it?

I have a 1541 Ultimate, but I tend to use my sd2iec units much more often. That would also make them available to backbit and kungfu flash people.

[randyrossi]

I think you can still use SD2IEC but you have to disable (or not choose) the fastloader when it asks you.

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On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 7:44 PM dabonetn ***@***.***> wrote: I'll try in a few, but have you thought about releasing non fast loading software so sd2iec users can use it? I have a 1541 Ultimate, but I tend to use my sd2iec units much more often. That would also make them available to backbit and kungfu flash people. — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#6 (comment)>, or unsubscribe <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AAI3HKEWCBJWD5RSYFISNZDV4E5WBANCNFSM6AAAAAAQA2TEJY> . You are receiving this because you commented.Message ID: ***@***.***>

-- Randy Rossi - "There are only two things that are hard about computer science; Naming things, Cache Invalidation, and Off-by-one errors."

[dabonetn]

Colors look good!. As for the fastloader, I meant in general, having to use a specific device to run Kawari inside is just a little annoying. Given any more thought for dot clock from the kawaris? Great use case is using a NTSC for pal games like sonic the hedgehog. You can only get full speed on a PAL output. Sam's Journey requires a REU for NTSC users also.