Mode with Unapplied Power Limits retaining Power Limit from Mode with an Applied Power Limit

[nathancdy]

Mode with Unapplied Power Limits retaining Power Limit from Mode with an Applied Power Limit

[seerge]

@nathancdy I'v got G14 2024 as well, tested it a bit and you were partially right in initial issue.

Current BIOS, has some bug when power limits will not reset to defaults from Manual mode. It happens in both AC / G-Helper (obviously, cause it's in BIOS).

Scenario to reproduce in AC

1. Apply Manual mode (it's Turbo under the hood) with some custom power limits (for example set 25W to all).
2. Select Turbo mode
3. Power limits will remain 25W ..

Scenario to reproduce in G-Helper

1. Apply custom power limits in any mode
2. Uncheck custom limits or just select same mode w/o limits

Main idea here, is that you select same base mode as you had before, just w/o limits

To reset limits - you need to select other mode. For example if you had Manual (Turbo) with limits - you need to select Balanced.

I have already pushed a new release https://github.com/seerge/g-helper/releases/tag/v0.156 where G-Helper would do that automatically for you.

[seerge]

@nathancdy hello,

The way all Asus laptops work - when you set a new "mode" (Silent / Blanced / Turbo) BIOS would reset all power limits and fan curves and set whatever is hardcoded for each mode.

After that optionally app can apply a custom power limit and / or fan curve.

If it's not resetting by some reason - then it's just a bugged BIOS unfortunately. In AC you can't set a custom limits to anything but Turbo mode (called Manual), so they probably didn't even test that.

--

I see that you don't have custom power limits but you do have custom fan curves for each mode. Can you check if unchecking Apply custom fan curve on Balanced / Turbo (or just clicking Factory defaults that does same) resets modes limits ?

P.S. Fans are always controlled by BIOS, and often asus adds so called "hysteresis" to the algorithm (i.e. a delay before ramp up speed). Here you can also check if default fan behavior with Apply unchecked changes behavior :)

[seerge]

@nathancdy did you had a chance to check if modes w/o custom curves reset to default power limits? As it depends on what I can offer next here + I need to know that this is not your observation / measurement error as well :)

I have prepared a build, where I have a added a small (100ms) delay between setting mode itself and applying custom fan curves. May be that will make difference.

GHelper.zip

[nathancdy]

@seerge I've tested it just now, I'm not sure exactly which part fixed it but I applied power limits to Balanced and Turbo last night, and booted it up just now on Silent, removed the power limits AND custom fan curves for Balanced and Turbo and tried benchmarking, and it seems like the power limit is gone/fixed and is going over the 10W limit. I feel like I can recall last night that the power limit still remained at 10W with custom fan curves applied and unapplied though, sorry for not testing each setting.

I'm still confused about the fans/temps at this point cause seeing other 2024 G14 reviews on Youtube, in CPU and GPU workloads and CPU only workloads the CPU doesn't run as hot (doesn't hit over 80 degrees whereas mine has hit 90+ in CPU and CPU+GPU workloads for benchmarking). However, I also updated the BIOS to 303 so that might've changed the power behaviour, since I believe the reviews I've seen use the stock BIOS (301).

[seerge]

@nathancdy rebooting has nothing to do with that :) as it resets everything you had. And on each app start G-Helper anyway sets last used mode (and power / fans if they are checked)

Do I understand correctly that even your existing build (not the one I linked here) works fine ?

Temps depend a lot on how lucky you are with liquid metal, als on BIOS probably and actual power consumption.

As for fans - keep in mind that all reviewers test in default modes (i.e. Turbo or Balanced w/o applying any custom fan curves), so if you want identical settings - you should uncheck fans as I mentioned above.

[nathancdy]

Yeah, my existing build works. Also, unchecking fans and everything default, I still find that my temps are much higher as seen in reviews, I'm hoping since I'm on the updated BIOS that the power behaviour changed.

[seerge]

@nathancdy last year I returned G14 2023 that I bought, cause it had terrible LM. It couldn't sustain even 60W on CPU load (was hitting 96C in a second)

My current and old G14 2022 manages sustain 85W on CPU only easily, and something like 140W in both CPU + GPU.

LM application varies from device to device a lot unfortunately due bad QC

[nathancdy]

@seerge Not sure if I want to return my model as the stock is very limited in my region at the moment (4060, 32GB RAM). I'll do some more additional testing and if I find it legitmately unusable for my routine use then I'll definitely consider it.
Thanks for your help!

[seerge]

@nathancdy 90C is OK temp for max load still. Unless you hit 96C and CPU starts throttling (i.e. dropping own power) - you are OK.

[nathancdy]

@seerge To be honest, in my Cinebench benchmarking, it was sustaining 90C+ max load (sometimes hitting 95) for 2 minutes straight in each attempt and I've stopped it at the 2 minute mark just because I didn't feel comfortable with it maintaining that temp for that long. Should I give it another shot and let it go for the full 10 minute benchmark? Or at least let it continue longer (i.e. 5 minutes)?

[seerge]

It's up to you :) just monitor it via HWinfo and check if it says throttling (or if wattage just drops)

[seerge]

@nathancdy since you are here, does the new GPU Power slider that I have added work for you ? I was wondering if it's possible to push G14 a bit above default 90W (65 base + 25 boost)

[nathancdy]

@seerge I'll do a 3DMark Time Spy benchmark and I'll get back to you! I'll test it at 70 + 25 for now then test further if temps are okay

[nathancdy]

@seerge I was about to benchmark but I received this unhandled exception/error upon clicking 'Factory Defaults' while on Balanced Mode.

[seerge]

@nathancdy copy all contents from "details" here :)

[nathancdy]

See the end of this message for details on invoking
just-in-time (JIT) debugging instead of this dialog box.

************** Exception Text **************
System.ArgumentOutOfRangeException: Value of '80' is not valid for 'Value'. 'Value' should be between 'Minimum' and '$Maximum'. (Parameter 'value')
Actual value was 80.
at System.Windows.Forms.TrackBar.set_Value(Int32 value)
at GHelper.Fans.ButtonReset_Click(Object sender, EventArgs e) in C:\Users\Serge\g-helper\app\Fans.cs:line 1122
at System.Windows.Forms.Button.OnClick(EventArgs e)
at System.Windows.Forms.Button.OnMouseUp(MouseEventArgs mevent)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WmMouseUp(Message& m, MouseButtons button, Int32 clicks)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.ButtonBase.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, WM msg, IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam)

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************** JIT Debugging **************

[nathancdy]

@seerge Sorry, wanted to note upon quitting/restarting GHelper, the error for Factory Defaults went away on Balanced, but occurs in Turbo.

[nathancdy]

@seerge Unfortunately the 70 + 25 power limit didn't work, Through HWInfo, GPU only went to max 88.5W. I assumed even with the small wattage change (5W), it would've at least hit a bit past 90 but I guess not.

[nathancdy]

Wanted to also note that my original issue still occurred, but fixed it by applying then unapplying power limits to Balanced and Turbo.

[seerge]

@nathancdy this build should fix it

Can you also click Factory defaults in this build on each mode and post a log from that ? (it reads current value from asus settings, and i want to check why it's out of slider range)

GHelper.zip

As for 90w, i think it's cause you still have 90W VBIOS, so that's another limit ...

Arre you able to limit power to the lower amounts ? Like what is the absolute minimum it lets you to set ? and does it work ?

[nathancdy]

log.txt

@seerge I'll probably test the power limit in the future, but the absolute minimum it sets me for GPU is 55W.

[seerge]

@nathancdy ok, thanks :) 55W looks correct. As whole GPU Power setting consists of 2 components, 1st is like fixed minimum value (it's 55 for G14) and variable part that you can drag / set.