Support for SVC scalability modes

[w3c]

Support for SVC scalability modes

[aboba]

@sandersdan

1. What features require specific decoder support?

[BA] The model in WebRTC-SVC is for the decoder and encoder to advertise the scalability modes they support for each codec. For VP8, VP9 and AV1, decoder support for SVC is mandatory so by default a decoder is assumed to be able to decode any SVC mode, so there is no need for a scalabilityMode setting on the decoder. However, encoders for these codecs may only support a subset of scalabilityMode values so these capabilities can be discovered, and the desired scalabiltiyMode can be set for the encoder.

The situation for H.264/SVC is more complex (see below), but the only browser supporting H.264/SVC was Edge Spartan (current Edge, Chrome, Firefox and Safari only support H.264/AVC), so it's not clear how much we need to worry about about H.264/SVC support.

2. My understanding is that a constrained baseline H.264 decoder should be able to decode with a temporal layer stripped out, but that other modes require decoder support.

[BA] The H.264 encoder and decoder in Chromium apparently has some support for temporal scalability, so at one point there was a (rejected) PR to use the framemarking RTP header extension to supply the TID that is not present in H.264/AVC bitstreams. This PR and the H.264/SVC implementation that shipped in Edge Spartan were the high points of H.264/SVC support in WebRTC. With AV1 on the horizon, I'm not sure how much demand there is for supporting H.264/SVC in WebCodecs.

Note that H.264/SVC (unlike VP8 and VP9 SVC) has a history of interoperability problems. Initial H.264/SVC implementations by teleconferencing vendors could not initially interoperate due to differences in their bitstream and RTP implementations. The bitstream interop problem was addressed via the IMTC H.264/SVC bitstream profile, which established mandatory and optional scalability modes for H.264/SVC.

3. How can sites query for support? Can we simplify the query to a small set of attributes the encoder/decoder has, or do we need the full SVC configuration?

[BA] In WebRTC-SVC encoders and decoders advertise the supported scalabilityMode values.

4. Is there an existing compatibility matrix for hardware encoder/decoder support that I can reference? (Primarily for Android, but also Windows would be useful.)

[BA] Any compliant VP8 or VP9 decoder can decode SVC. Chromium-based browsers support capability advertisement and configuration for SVC encoders via WebRTC-SVC. Currently, Chromium advertises support for the L1T2 and L1T3 scalabilityMode values, but I'm not sure whether these modes are supported on all platforms. In general, hardware encoders have not had very good support for SVC (particularly more exotic modes like spatial scalability or K-SVC).

[aboba]

@chcunningham

"might suggest a path for vpx/av1 (assuming it's not deemed integral to some existing profiles - could also be fine with that)."

[BA] The AV1 bitstream specification defines scalability modes in Section 6.7.5, and we borrowed the terminology in WebRTC-SVC. Currently, WebRTC-SVC re-uses the scalability modes defined in the AV1 bitstream specification.

"For H.264, rfc6381 described "svc" as a codec string prefix similar to "avc". I have no idea if this has been used in practice."

[BA] In SDP, H.264/SVC (RFC 6190) is treated as a distinct codec from H.264/AVC (RFC 6184). This simplifies things somewhat.

"It would sure be nice if the svc prefix + profile bytes described sets of svc features that must be supported."

[BA] The IMTC H.264/SVC bitstream profile attempts to improve H.264/SVC interoperability by mandating that encoders and decoders support a subset of scalability modes (e.g. L1T2, L1T3, etc.). Because an H.264/SVC decoder may not be able to decode any scalability mode an H.264/SVC encoder can send, for H.264/SVC both the encoder and decoder need to advertise their supported scalability modes.

"For other codecs (VP8, VP9, AV1), I'm even less familiar."

[BA] Since VP8/VP9/AV1 decoders are required to be able to decode anything an encoder can send, there typically isn't a need to discover or configure decoder SVC capabilities, just to discover what scalabilityMode values an encoder supports and to configure an encoder to encode using a desired scalabilityMode.

[sandersdan]

A few beginner questions I have about SVC:

• What features require specific decoder support? (My understanding is that a constrained baseline H.264 decoder should be able to decode with a temporal layer stripped out, but that other modes require decoder support.)
• How can sites query for support? Can we simplify the query to a small set of attributes the encoder/decoder has, or do we need the full SVC configuration?
• Is there an existing compatibility matrix for hardware encoder/decoder support that I can reference? (Primarily for Android, but also Windows would be useful.)

[chcunningham]

How can sites query for support? Can we simplify the query to a small set of attributes the encoder/decoder has, or do we need the full SVC configuration?

For H.264, rfc6381 described "svc" as a codec string prefix similar to "avc". I have no idea if this has been used in practice. It would sure be nice if the svc prefix + profile bytes described sets of svc features that must be supported.

For other codecs (VP9, AV1), I'm even less familiar. @marco99zz @jzern

[jzern]

@FrankGalligan

Frank, I don't think we defined any codec strings for svc.

[chcunningham]

Frank, I don't think we defined any codec strings for svc.

@sandersdan found that, for H264, they seem to have defined SVC profiles, so that might suggest a path for vpx/av1 (assuming its not deemed integral to some existing profiles - could also be fine with that).

[FrankGalligan]

No, unfortunately we did not.

…

On Sat, Feb 15, 2020 at 10:10 AM chcunningham ***@***.***> wrote: Frank, I don't think we defined any codec strings for svc. @sandersdan <https://github.com/sandersdan> found that, for H264, they seem to have defined SVC profiles, so that might suggest a path for vpx/av1 (assuming its not deemed integral to some existing profiles - could also be fine with that). — You are receiving this because you were mentioned. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#40>, or unsubscribe <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ADEY2JSEM6NEXG4FCKBEOE3RDAVYVANCNFSM4KT6FVOQ> .

[sandersdan]

My initial impression is that the WebRTC-SVC approach is simpler (as compared to ORTC) to implement capability detection for. In general I'd like to follow the WebRTC APIs where possible for consistency.

It does seem like there are a lot of modes, and I'm not sure what happens when AV2 comes out and supports an order of magnitude more things. I am in general not a fan of query APIs that list every supported feature, because it often turns out to be expensive to query platform decoders.

Is there already a mapping of this for MediaCapabilities? If so, do clients list the modes they are interested in as part of the query?

[chcunningham]

Is there already a mapping of this for MediaCapabilities? If so, do clients list the modes they are interested in as part of the query?

No, no facility for MC exists at this time. If I understand @aboba correctly, none is need for vpx/av1.

[BA] Since VP8/VP9/AV1 decoders are required to be able to decode anything an encoder can send, there typically isn't a need to discover or configure decoder SVC capabilities, just to discover what scalabilityMode values an encoder supports and to configure an encoder to encode using a desired scalabilityMode.

Where can I read about this requirement? I'd like to be sure its airtight.

[aboba]

@sandersdan The ORTC approach was not able to configure or advertise support for non-hierarchical modes like the KEY and KEY_SHIFT modes that are supported in AV1. It also was more complex for developers to correctly configure, as compared with the WebRTC-SVC approach.

The only downside of WebRTC-SVC as compared with ORTC was that ORTC supported arbitrary resolution ratios for spatial scalability as well as the ability to enable/disable individual layers. These features were also available in WebRTC 1.0's simulcast API (via sendEncodings), so developers may come to expect them. As discussed here, there have been some ideas about how to add some of that functionality back to WebRTC-SVC, at the cost of some increased complexity.

[aboba]

@chcunningham While there isn't a need to describe the scalability modes that VP8/VP9/AV1 decoders can decode (because a compliant decoder should be able to decode any mode), there is a need to describe the scalability modes than an encoder can encode. For example, in Chrome when you enable the "experimental web features" flag, you will. see that calling RTCRtpSender.getCapabilities('video') indicates support for L1T2 and L1T3 with the VP8 and VP9 codecs, but not spatial scalability modes or the KEY or KEY_SHIFT modes.

[jimbankoski]

As per discussions a couple of things we'd like to see :

per layer level bitrate controls.
the ability to set min and max quantizer on a per level basis.
the ability to change the type of scalability on the fly

[aboba]

@jimbankoski Some of these needs (and proposals for addressing them) have come up in the WebRTC-SVC specification:
w3c/webrtc-svc#14

[jimbankoski]

@aboba Thanks for the pointer and agreed it seems to be covered there!

[chcunningham]

Didn't make Q4, but I intend to work on it this quarter.

[aboba]

Related: #9 #25 #85

[chcunningham]

Triage note: marked 'breaking' because the PR that resolves this makes a breaking change to the encoder output callback in order to emit metadata.

[chcunningham]

With #187 merged, the breaking change to the encoder output callback is now resolved. We still intend to add additional descriptions of SVC metadata (frame dependencies, spatial layer id, ...), but this is done by extending the metadata dictionary with new keys for those.

[juhani-honkala]

Has there been any progress on this? Is there a browser support matrix for the allowed SVC modes and some working examples how to actually use them or this all still wip?

[aboba]

Encoding of temporal scalability (L1T2, L1T3) is supported for VP8, VP9, H.264/AVC and AV1. A live demo is here.

Github repo: https://github.com/aboba/wc-demo

[aboba]

@dalecurtis Can we close this?

[dalecurtis]

Basic support is now specified.